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General Forums Ask Capcom Vega in SF4: Next - A Simple Fix.
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Vega in SF4: Next - A Simple Fix.
3 months ago  ::  Aug 23, 2009 - 11:54PM #1
Graphf
Posts: 54

I was talking with a friend last night about SF4 and this idea just hit me about Vega. A simple fix that I think would really help him and not break him or the game...

EX Flips. Seriously. check this out and think about it before you judge.

Right now KKK or PPP makes Vega do either a one or two hop flip to escape. But these flips are pretty useless in most situations and can be punished rather easy by even an intermediate player. They are not that safe and end up being kind of a waste. They do have their place but they don't help him when he is getting crossed up or pressured heavily.

What I was thinking is add a motion to the Flips so you can still do the regular flips when you want but you can use the EX flip when you need to .

Lets say the motion for EX Flip is dB, KKK which would make Vega Spring back almost full screen and have complete invulnerability and fast recovery. He would also have df, KKK which makes him spring forward almost full screen with the same properties.

The reason I like this Idea is that while, yes, he would have complete invulnerability while doing the flip it is costing him an EX gauge to use which he needs badly for his game to be effective. Also, the move is not hurting anyone its just letting him get the **** out of bad situations.

Having the option to flip forward and instantly spring out of a corner would really save Vega in a lot of situations against basically the entire cast.

Abel can EX his roll so I figure Vega should be able to EX his flips in almost the same manner...more speed, distance, invulnerability and safety.

What do you guys think?


  I'd also be interested to hear what Seth thinks as he has a history playing Street Fighter and thus has a "feel" for mechanics in regard to their applications in the grand scheme of things as far as balance is concerned.


Thanks for reading my request.

3 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 3:36AM #2
TongariDan (o'-')o
Posts: 4012

Not sure, Vega has some nice distance options.  I'm afraid with something like that Vega players would end up being turtles.  At least it should take 2 EX bars, similar to Seth's EX tandem drive.


Arthur 4 TvC!!
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3 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 5:31AM #3
d3v
Posts: 3428

Not even addressing the main issue with Vega in that for the execution required, his Ultra is pretty bad in that it often misses and you can't really combo into it.

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3 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 9:16AM #4
Spritz
Posts: 135

Vega's ultra has insane range. It's really only a matter of catching an opponent off guard. It's a great threat and can really limit your enemy's actions.

3 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 9:27AM #5
d3v
Posts: 3428

Aug 24, 2009 -- 9:16AM, Spritz wrote:


Vega's ultra has insane range. It's really only a matter of catching an opponent off guard. It's a great threat and can really limit your enemy's actions.




That range is also a drawback in that at times, you can simply crouch under it.

I support a new (or remixed) Darkstalkers game!
http://is.gd/2iSgG

My fighting game blog.
http://comboaddict.blogspot.com/
3 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 1:11PM #6
Graphf
Posts: 54

in response, Vega already plays a turtle style game to begin with...poke and run.  The problem is that he has lots of problems when it comes to getting pressured and crossed up.   Being able to EX flip would give him the ability to get out the situation and really go along with his style of play.


I hear lots of people say to make his scarlet terror better but reall that would make him play like every one else who has a srk type move simply by adding some invulerability frames to it.  The EX flip idea gives Vega an escape without turning him into another srk reliant character.


Also, about the his Ultra.   Yes it does suck but I don't think that is what is holding him back.  although it would be great if it tracked people or could be controlled somehow it really isn't a big deal.  Vegas number one problem is that almost everyone in the cast can cross him up all day for free and keep the pressure on becasue he has NO response to this tactic except don't get in that situation which is pretty weak. 


He needs a way to compete that is realistic and doesn't break the game or him and I think EX-flips would do the trick .


 


PS.  TWO EX bars would devistate his game. He needs the Meter to compete since his damage output and combo damage is among the lowest in the game.  Having EX-Flip cost one bar would allow him to get out of a sticky sitation and keep fighting.  Also as previsoulsy mentioned he does play a turtle/runaway style so its not like he is a rushdown character that always has plenty of Meter to use. 

3 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 9:23PM #7
TongariDan (o'-')o
Posts: 4012

Just becuase you play Vega that way doesn't mean everyone does.  I've seen a lot of good rushdown Vega players.  He has really good link combos and some good mix-ups, plus he's fast.  Combo'ing into the roll gets you some good bar and he can do his off the wall specials and then just whiff them when at a distance to get free bar (similar to Bison in that respect).


Arthur 4 TvC!!
PSN portable ID
3 months ago  ::  Aug 25, 2009 - 2:12AM #8
Graphf
Posts: 54

You are right about Vega being able to wiff wall dive for meter and Vega being played as a rushdown...because I do both.   While wiffing wall dives for meter will give you some its no nearly enough to make that big of a difference since the threat of Vegas wall dives have been reduced in this game due to FAs and poor air pirority as well as his wall dives reduced speed in this iteration of SF. 


For rushing down, I admit that anyone who has seen any videos by Agent Hoy (xbox pad Vega) will be quite impressed by his performance and will give rushdown another look.  We can also look to the east for some great Vega play in the form of Makado (the only Claw player to rep at SBO) but the problem then comes back to Vegas damage output which is on the very low end of this game.  Also having a lower stun threshold hurts his ability to effectively get in and stay in if it comes to trading blows.   While he does have a few good combos nothing he has is anything to write home about...


Thats why when I read all these threads here or SRK, ect about making Vega better I feel that yes he should be a little better but simply increasing his damage seems like a cop out so does giving X character more life... I don't think these kinds of fixes really end up helping the game at all.


This is the reason I thought long and hard about what could really benefit Vega thats not a cop out, thats not a game breaker and thats not character specific for his weak matches. 


   I came to the idea of giving him and EX Flip.   All in all, taking the Meter he needs to be able to rushdown to instead escape presents the Vega player who wants to rushdown with an option... stay in and try to wait out the storm OR escape and get on even footing at the cost of having less powerful moves at ones disposal.   The concept of an EX Flip would benefit any playstyle that a Vega player would pursue. 


I am not the best Vega player by any means but I know that Im pretty good.  I understand his game well and know the matchups.  I also admit that I am a bit biased.  Afterall, how could I not be?  Vega is my main.  But I seriously tried to take this into consideration while thinking about what "fix" Vega could have that would be simple while not turning him instantly into a high tier god of doom. 


I really think that the EX Flip would bring Vega up in the exact areas he suffers in the most while at the same time not completely letting him have advantages over everyone else.   He would still get crossed up and pressured and have little to answer it with until he had some Meter in which case he could simply escape. this doesn't change his Ultra, or his attack priority or his speed or give him an infintie or anything.  Im am not looking for a "win" button with Vega.


Just a way to make compete with the rest of the cast in the most balanced way possible.  I believe this may be the answer. Hopefully.

3 months ago  ::  Aug 26, 2009 - 2:41AM #9
PG > C
Posts: 2969

Aug 24, 2009 -- 5:31AM, d3v wrote:


Not even addressing the main issue with Vega in that for the execution required, his Ultra is pretty bad in that it often misses and you can't really combo into it.




I find this to be the biggest issue with him rather than needing some EX flip. That or give him more health.

.
3 months ago  ::  Aug 26, 2009 - 4:34AM #10
Ken
Posts: 913

All he needs is an overhead.............happy days!

Get Vegarized!

XBL gamertag: a big irish man

All challengers welcome...

PSN ID: i_like_dyke

Urien, Hugo, Alex and Dudley for future SF games/DLC
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