| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:23PM #41 | |
This sometimes can be a problem, but for certain games such as Mega man 9, the narrative isn't hurt by the non linear progression, for the story is revealed, one way or another, depending on the amount of Robot bosses you've defeated.
the GTA series also comes to mind, for taking certain missions can lead to changes in the story, like how in GTA4, a certain main character is either killed or saved depending on the decisions you make throught out the story; Thus bringing up the cause and effect/ morality of a player's decisions that you mentioned earlier.
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:47PM #42 | |
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I did Bomb Man and Guts Man. Bomb Man was fine, but what human put the dropping platform jumps in Guts Man's stage? Can you imagine kids these days trying to do that for the first time? I cannot imagine 7-12 year olds trying to make those jumps. They just wouldn't be able to. |
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:47PM #43 | |
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Yea, MegaMan 9 added in nicely some cutscenes based off of how many robots you beat. Before that, MegaMan 7 and 8 had it where you beat 4 robot masters, then entered a cutscene and special level. While I love the Robot Master museum in 7 (especially the music!) 9's way still let people choose from a big selection of 8 bosses, which I admire. MegaMan's style of level choices is one of my favorite features of the series. Any other linear game, if you got to a hard level, you could not do anything about it but keep trying and trying. Most people would just give up, and not get to experience the rest of the game. The same thing can happen in MegaMan 1, but even if you can not beat a single level, you have the opportunity to try out 6 different ones. Furthermore, beating one gives you a new power which might help make the other levels a little easier (I have to agree, Magnet Beam on IceMan's stage seems more of a necessity though). |
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:52PM #44 | |
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In response to the discussion question:
Non-linearity is good and bad for the exact same reason, in my opinion, but for different people. It is great for the players, because if there is a particular level that is too difficult, the player can choose a different level, and make real progress in the game. Perhaps, by the time he or she wants to play the difficult level again, a combination of new tools and the player's inceased skill make it possible to beat the level. In short, it cuts down on the frustration. However, this is a nightmare for developers. If the game is non-linear, than each of the non-linear levels needs to be of the same level of difficulty or so, otherwise the difficulty curve of the game is completely screwed. (Of course, if every initial level is equally hard, the difficulty won't ramp up for a while [i.e. in this case, Wily's stages]) A clear example of this is Guts Man's level, which has jumps that require a level of precision that I don't think exist anywhere else in the entire first six levels. This causes a skew of the difficulty level, which is only going to prematurely upset players. |
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:56PM #45 | |
To tell the truth here, I remember YEEAAARS ago (I was probably about 10 or younger), when my dad took me to a Funcoland. They had the NES set up and so you could just ask to try out any game they had behind the counter to help you decide if you want to buy it or not. I saw MegaMan, and I had already played/watched MegaMan 2 and 3, and so I was excited to try it. Unfortunately, I picked GutsMan's stage. Could not get past the platforms before I got gameover. Of course, it made me think the game sucked, and so I did not ask dad to buy it. So I have to agree with what you said, definitely a tough challenge for first time players. |
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 2:03PM #46 | |
Allowing the player to choose the path that he chooses has affected gaming immensely. Just off the top of my head I think of Mass Effect. Your choices in gaming affect the outcome. Now obviously it's a very basic concept of which level do you want to choose first but as everything does it evolved. One of RPG's main draw is that they have multiple endings. This of course is altered by your actions and choices in games. If you trace it back, the option to choose what you do/don't do can be tranced to the freedom that Megaman gave to choose who/what/where. Weaknesses is a few things. First as a game developer it was put best at this years writers panel at comic con "You need to think about if they have reached the king, but havent gotten the key, but defeated the frog" where now since you have many options of the way that your going to play, you may lose some of the storytelling. Also as a player, there are times when you can get stuck in a game and dont realize that you need to go back to Ice Man's stage so in Fire Man's level the pilars are frozen so now you can jump and get the heart upgrade (This isnt true, I'm just using an example) and due to this, players that have become accustomed to having a simplistic game where they can just hammer out the game without having to think will grow impatient with the game and it may not do so well in sales. One of the most important things (and I hope I dont steal another day's question) was the feeling of accomplishment that I got. When I lost over, and over, and over to Ice Man I was very angry but I kept on pushing on. When I finally got to him I felt so good for just getting there. Sure I died, but I made it. Then he started killing me over and over. So finally when I beat him, you bet I shouted in happiness. It had been a long time since I faced an end boss that hadn't been so easy that I didnt kill him dying more than 5 times. Also the bosses in Megaman don't drop a difficulty level after you die like some games do. Sure, I yelled and wanted to punch something when Ice Man killed me over and over, but after I beat him and shouted in happiness, I was immediatly transported to a younger time in my life when it truly felt that when I beat a game, I fought hard and defeated that game.
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 2:14PM #47 | |
Funny how I can forget such obvious examples when trying to make a point (^.^;) |
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 2:15PM #48 | |
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I think it was a great innovation, and it really opened up the door for a lot of strategy with regard to which path to take to Dr. Wily.
I think the catch of this Rock-Paper-Scissors cycle of strengths and weaknesses was actually the Magnet Beam, though. It is a very useful weapon to get early, but you need either Elecman's or Gutsman's power to get it. This makes choosing where to start a little more complicated, and I really like how Mega Man 2 improved on this idea but adding a counter-cycle that faced off the circle of who's weapon works best on whom versus which item is best to have in which stage. I love this additional element of path-strategy that non-linearity offers. One drawback to this style of design is when it is left up to the player to find a critical gameplay element in order to play the game the way it was intended; for example, In Mega Man X, I always thought it was a mistake to not have X begin the game with the dash ability, as this practically forces the player to tackle Chill Penguin before any other Mavericks. As for it's effects in modern gaming...that's kind of a difficult question to answer. Mega Man introduced the concept of non-linear gameplay; that the game can be broken down into missions that are each self-contained, but that neither require nor forbid the use of items and weapons from outside sources. I think it's gotta be a very difficult thing to guarantee that everything works properly in each case, so developers probably tend to shy away from it, which is a shame because I'd love to see these inter-mingling strategy circles (like in my MM2) example taken to a more complex level and applied to some other genres, like a non-MMO RPG (not quite sure how that'd work, but I'd love to see an attempt! [Note: side-quests do not count an non-linear]). |
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 4:52PM #49 | |
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I ended up tackling BombMan first where I ended up dying about 4 or 5 times against him until I got use to his attack pattern. Then I went to GutsMan who while I had no problem defeating using BombMan's weapon, I think I died around 4 times on that damn platform section that drops you into a pit if you mess up! Uggh I hate that section! As for the discussion question, I think that MegaMan's non-linear game progression affected gaming by allowing gamers the feeling that they are directing the game by them having the ability to choose how it all plays out which for me was a first when I played the game as a kid. Granted games like Super Mario Bros. had warp zones that let you skip areas and what not, but MegaMan allowed you to almost choose how difficult you wanted the beginning of the game to be by choosing or not choosing to do the rock-paper-scissors method of the game. It has affected most games since and modern gaming by giving the player's options on what to tackle first and the feeling of freedom instead of locking them in one path to completion. From the mission system in the GTA series to RPG/Action type games that another poster mentioned such as Mass Effect, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and the Fallout series. Some of the problems with this system however is the issue of game balance, at least the first time a person plays the game. Without knowing whose weapon is strong against who, the game can be a REAL challenge and turn some people off. This can also be an issue in some modern games that have either an open sandbox style or a choose your own mission/level mechanic. But I think that is also some of it's charm, since by only playing the game and some trial and error can you really know what the best order for you to play through the game is. This is definitely a game that was created with no hand holding unlike a lot of more modern games seem to have and instead relied on the player playing and playing until they have the skills to complete the challenges and memorization of the levels and traps. |
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| 1 month ago :: Oct 12, 2009 - 5:04PM #50 | |
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Fire Elec Man's Weapon > Select, Select, Select, Select, Select, Select......... Win. |
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Capcom Games Discussion
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The Official Capcom Unity Video Game Discussion Thread: Mega Man, Week 1
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