Let's see if this is going to turn up a discussion or a "lol Reploids dun have gendurs" thread, shall we? Consider this an experiment.

I'll preface this by saying the most important thing; not only is this completely based on my personal opinion and idea of how people perceive others, but I also am completely sure that Reploids don't have the necessary parts to be anatomically correct.

I've looked around a bit, and I'm a bit surprised that there's some people who tend to brush off the fact Reploids DO have assigned genders. Certainly, it's no tab A for the males and slot B for the females, but they have what's called "secondary sexual characteristics". These would be a developped musculature, broader shoulders and a deeper voice for the males, and breasts, wider hips and a higher voice on the females.

And other than a certain trap in the Zero series, there haven't really been cases of a female Reploid acting as if her gender identity was male, or a male Reploid behaving like he was programmed with a perception of himself as female. So far, this tells us the obvious about the Reploids' creators: what the Reploids look like is relevant to the gender they're superficially assigned.

Another interesting tidbit is that Reploids, created by humans and intended to be human, also embrace their gendered identities. Throughout the games, Zero, X and Axl refer to eachother and their human Reploid comrades and foes with the proper genders, instead of anything gender-neutral. In fact, if they're faced with gender-ambiguous Reploids, they seem to get confused.

The animal Mavericks, whose secondary sexual characteristics would only be obvious if they were compared to another animal Reploid that was the same species but of the other gender (different wingspans, size difference, build difference), are hard to identify on their own. In fact, in all of the games prior to the Zero series, animal Reploids are automatically defined as male. Seems familiar? It should be, because most of the players also immediately default the animal Reploids to males, often without even thinking.

And it doesn't just happen with the animal Reploids, but with Lumine, too. Lumine's intentionally gender-ambiguous (it's meant to be based on an androgynous angel instead of a gendered human). Next time you play X8, look closely at it. Lumine's only a bit smaller than X and Axl, but its body hasn't been built with any secondary sexual characteristics (the waist is too slim for a male, the hips aren't wide enough for a female), and the voice sounds like a younger child to add to the confusion. And yet, the Trio refers to Lumine as male.

All of the observations I've made tie in with how we, the humans, perceive eachother and identify eachother. Obviously, one of the first things we notice when we see strangers is their gender. We do it entirely subconsciously, and it's an instantaneous reflex hardwired into our brains. It's an important part of who we are and how we perceive ourselves and others, shallow as it might be, and it's why we continuously associate Reploids with genders--and why it's entirely okay to do it.

...Thoughts on the unplanned essay? (Well, other than "get off my lawnforum, you boring old fart!")

I completely agree with you. Even though reploids dont really have all of a genders physical traits cause theyre robots they still take on their designated gender traits and i believe they were built for such.I mean im sure there arent REAL genetals on reploids but to kinda make it appear as though there was it gives proof of what gender traits they are designed to take on. Which is why i had trouble with Lumine until the end mostly cuz his voice isnt as masculine as other male reploids are.It was kinda in between.

Then theres Layer. there is NO doubt she is female. Her rack must be for extra energy im going to assume.

Jokes aside, what about Optic Sunflower? THERES an ambiguous reploid if I ever saw one. I assume Sunflower t be female based on its appearance, somewhat feminine tone of voice, and the way it sways sort of from side to side, if you know what Im reffering to.

But now, what about reploids such as the massproduced New Gens? they all look the same, and they have nev er been shown to talk outside of their transformations. What gender are we supposed to assign them when they cannot be clasified by appearance since they are all alike? then they can also change forms, from say, a female reploid, to a male reploid. which makes the matter more confusing.

well? Any thoughts?

I hadn't expected that much of a feedback! Heh, it's nice that I'm noticed (though I kind of tried to be noticed with that title)!

On to answering/debating/whatevering!

Aug 12, 2009 -- 7:39PM, ZeroX wrote:

By the way....Im just curious.....do you study psycholgy!?!?! lol

Well, what I know of psychology I learned from extensive Wikipedia combing and from observing other humans. It was actually originally done to give some more depth beyond what I know (being a hermit and not really all that fond of real social interactions really limits my first-hand experience) when I roleplay with various characters.

Aug 12, 2009 -- 9:37PM, Zechs wrote:

Well, ignoring that Reploids are not mammal, or anything else biological, they cannot technically have genders. But, as you said, they can contain some characteristics... But it isn't in a traditional way. Reploids are for a verity of uses, including typical labor, defense, combat, intelligence, research... And depending on those classifications determines body type. More mental work, less body build. More body work, less mental width.

That seems to be the case at first, but then comparing Zero (who's 100% intended to be a brutal fighter) with Layer (who's... ...well... Yeah. Layer. With her futuristic softcore track in "her" scene...) shows that there's very little difference in their builds. Zero and Layer have the same height, and Layer can basically be considered Zero's opposite gender counterpart. They both have a similarly slim build, and besides the obvious breasts (and even then, Zero has his booblights!) and curves, you couldn't tell the two are intended for different jobs, Hunter and Navigator respectively.

Aug 12, 2009 -- 9:37PM, Zechs wrote:

Example, Alia is a Navigator, her specialty is knowledge, so she would have less body mass. And being smart, plus her designer, it decidedly made her with a 'female' personality. And giving that female characteristic, to separate class even further, was given specific physical features to separate them from others. I.E. Female observant components.

Actually, Alia was originally a Reploid researcher (and coerced into helping in destroying Gate's Reploids, which couldn't be analyzed), not a Navigator. Using your logic, Gate should have been female as well. (He's even smarter than Alia, who's already very smart herself.)

There does seem to be a trend in the Maverick Hunters to assign female-type Reploids to Navigation (Alia, Layer, Pallette, the nameless Day of Sigma navi) or Research and Development (Alia and then Pallette) but we can't say for certain it's a worldwide tendancy in 21XX.

Aug 12, 2009 -- 9:37PM, Zechs wrote:

Other than that, they are what they are, that is machine. And if anything, every machine is somewhat A-Sexual. In that it cannot reproduce per se, but it can (if applicable) replicate itself. Reploids built from reploids.

Reploids shouldn't be thought of as machines so much as cyborgs, in my opinion.

I use the entirely psychological aspect of sexuality in regards to Reploids, simply because it's actually been proven very little of sexuality is actually tied down to hormones. Reploids can show emotions, even very complex ones, and it's pretty much a given they can feel. The player characters obviously feel pain when they're harmed fighting, complete with cries when they "die", so they had to have sensors for pain.

Going from that and expending, they'd also have pressure sensors to be able to tell when they're getting trapped by something and can react accordingly, and they even prove it when they interact together. X reacts to Zero placing a hand on his shoulder, Axl struggles against Zero grabbing his upper arm...

And if they can feel that, then gentler touches would register to them, giving them the common denominator of seeking pleasure, like humans. They don't have any goal of reproducing, which would make gender irrelevant if they did have it. But they don't, which boils down physical appearance to what's attractive to each Reploid, including a preference for a particular gender-appearance, or even a preference for animal Reploids.

Aug 12, 2009 -- 10:50PM, Flame-G102 wrote:

Then theres Layer. there is NO doubt she is female. Her rack must be for extra energy im going to assume.

Actually, I have a nonsense theory that she was an... ah... entertainer and her creator messed up her intelligence and pawned her off to the Maverick Hunters...

Aug 12, 2009 -- 10:50PM, Flame-G102 wrote:

Jokes aside, what about Optic Sunflower? THERES an ambiguous reploid if I ever saw one. I assume Sunflower t be female based on its appearance, somewhat feminine tone of voice, and the way it sways sort of from side to side, if you know what Im reffering to.

I can't really say if Optic is male or female, so I can't really identify it based on fact (read: I can't remember if both genders of Sunflowers end up having the brown seed-bearing head or there's a color/size difference).

I myself just went with the default of "all nonhuman Mavericks are male", but I can't really say if it acts this way because it's female, or because it's completely off its rocker and  disconnected from reality.

Aug 12, 2009 -- 10:50PM, Flame-G102 wrote:

But now, what about reploids such as the massproduced New Gens? they all look the same, and they have nev er been shown to talk outside of their transformations. What gender are we supposed to assign them when they cannot be clasified by appearance since they are all alike? then they can also change forms, from say, a female reploid, to a male reploid. which makes the matter more confusing.

Ah, the newgens! I have my own stance on these. Basically, they're only a bit brighter than Mechaniloids. They seem to behave as one entity spread over a lot of bodies, so I've taken to reffering to these as "drones". My theory goes that they're only sub-sentient, like Mechaniloids tend to show they are, and they're designed to be controlled by a specialized Reploid, like Signas (who singlehandedly orders the Maverick Hunters). It's why they could be mass-controlled by Lumine but weren't all that effective about it. Lumine just didn't have enough brainpower to micromanage hundreds of Reploid drones.

Drones probably don't have any gender... or self-identity at all, in fact, which was a deliberate feature. After all, it's easier to work Reploids to death when they don't complain and exist solely to serve. (It would also arguably be what pushed Lumine off and made him start plotting the humans' downfall.)

Aug 13, 2009 -- 1:04AM, LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:

I would be harder pressed to believe that some Reploids don't have some sort of genital approximation.  Not all, but I would certainly imagine some do, given that we have certain... ah, inanimate human representations of different types that are... shall we say, feature-rich.

That's all I'm saying on that matter, other than let's face it: there's an entire industry behind such stuff today, and Reploid tech would no doubt only further it.

RealDolls would be an example of that. *grin* But for genitals, I'm just going with practicality. (There's absolutely nothing hot about full-body "jumpsuit-skins" covered in circuit-lines leaking through in there, nope...) Would you stick fragile, sensitive parts on someone who goes into battle and frequently come out of it with injuries? Not to mention that the Hunters' pelvic armor would be painfully tight if there was something to tuck in there.

And I really, really hope that a Reploid who's for all intents and purposes a teenager, just about the worst phase of life to be perpetually stuck into, wouldn't screw his pelvic armor in place. (Hello Axl.)

I don't argue that they could have that purpose, though, but it would raise... ahem, "compatibility issues" between models with the extra feature and without the extra feature.

Plus there's a very simple threat that would make genitalia extremely rare: all Reploids, X excluded, can go Maverick. Worse, the new generation who're now in production can go Maverick at will, or rather rebel against humans. And I'm pretty sure that no human in 21XX wants Mavericks that can violate them on top of being a threat to their lives.

Sorry, I kind of had to snip out segments quoting you. Don't worry, though, I'm still taking everything into account, just focusing on certain portions.

Aug 13, 2009 -- 9:35PM, Zechs wrote:

(...) Regarding Zero, he cannot be taken into acount, as he was built hundred years earlier, with no ties to the reploids as X does. And even then, they are just robots with more developed minds. So Zero nor X are part of the reploid gender analasys in that they are not reploids. (...)

(...) If you recall, I did say for the most part. There are always exceptions. But Gate is different. Gate was built for far more superior purpose. (...)

X is actually relevant in this case. He's their origin, and he's as close to confirmed as possessing a human soul as the games hint at (the Hadouken capsule in Maverick Hunter X is retranslated to confirm that X can use the Hadouken because he's so human-like). If Light created that technological miracle and created a human in a metal body, then we're to assume all Reploids, though flawed replicas of X, possess the programming that made X able of experiencing emotions.

And putting a twist on Zero's lack of relevancy, Wily programmed him with all the emotions he shows in the games. It's a fan-misconception that Zero was reprogrammed by anyone--all the backstories agree on one point here, and just say that Sigma dragged the berserk Reploid to base and he ended up waking up just like he acts nowadays. Wily probably wouldn't have implemented his version of the suffering circuit, so unless Zero was at least equivalent to X in final emotion programming, he shouldn't have felt grief when Iris died. Even if he's not directly a Reploid, he exhibits startling similarities to X, by proxy stems from the same technological source as X (Mega Man), and can be considered to have a similarly flawed AI build like the modern Reploids.

Gate may be an exception, too, but then again, he's an exception only in the same way X and Zero are. Something had to be altered to make him different, but in the end, he's still a Reploid, built from the same base as X and Zero. Trying to elbow him out of contradicting a pattern because he's "special" is the same as saying Lumine doesn't count because he/it's also built for a special purpose--which, by the way, also happens to be why Sigma, the archetype of your fighter=greater body mass, and Signas, another contradiction of brain=lesser body mass, were both built.

Aug 13, 2009 -- 9:35PM, Zechs wrote:

Even then, reploids are machines. Just more advanced machines meant to mimic humans. That said, it is the mind that takes predecense. The Mind, o which there is always a contrary development with everything exposed to. Reploids can addapt to others as war buddies can. They can learn to assist others as colleagues can. They can learn to care for others (...) .

Here, I have absolutely no bone to pick. I 100% agree that Reploids are highly advanced, and have the same insane ability to adapt as humans.

But here's food for thoughts... how would YOU react if you woke up next morning, of the opposite gender? Or, to break the "natural" genders, both or neither?

Aug 13, 2009 -- 9:35PM, Zechs wrote:

(...) In that a reploid holds the emotions, but those emotions are lockd by 'triggers' that are taped during situations that would cause such emotion to show for a human. If loss is experienced, humans react. This would apply to reploids whom have such 'IF' statements within their programming. 'IF' such is connected, then 'X' deploys. 'IF' X is removed, 'SAD' emotion deploys.

(...) it plays a major role within the development of their mind, but in that we cannot create such from scratch, (...) .

Other than that, we cannot rule out the possibility of said conections being a glitch.

I'll have to disagree here, though. The IF... THEN statements are what I see robots as Protoman and Megaman as having in order to react properly like they do in the games. That's an entirely "top-down" approach in coding, and it's mercilessly unforgiving if that's the only thing used, which would account for Megaman being so naive and believing in what's essencially an oxymoron for anything that can't actively take a phylosophical approach to it, "Fight for everlasting peace".

I'm sorry that I can't seem to find the article I was looking for to reference and quote from to be sure I'm doing it right, but I'll continue with X, since that's important. X would be entirely "bottom-up". Basically, Light gave him the most primitive, basic AI, and then placed him in that capsule for these 30+ years to let X build himself on trial and error (assuming the capsule includes a simulation to test X's psyche and mental abilities as much as his physical capacities and servicing him to keep him in working condition. And that's what's amazing--the technology exists today. It was used before to create a very rudimentary robot that learned to walk without any input other than tactile and proximity radar feedback, and the experiment is still ongoing to add different methods for it to move and adapt to them, and currently a success after it fumbles.

Reploids and Zero have a mixture of hardcoded, "top-down" responses (although I suspect at least the "FIGHT X" clause was wrecked or badly recoded at some point between Zero being created and waking up at Hunter HQ after he was dragged in) and the "bottom-up" approach that allows them to learn and evolve. That way, they can be popped out of the factories and assembly lines and created without a human pouring sweat and tears over allowing a Reploid to grow to an "age" where it's safe to release into society. (I'm sure you can see the irony in that rushing, right?)

Now, wrapping all that AI debate together back into the genders... Humans learn to tell boys from girls apart at a relatively young age compared to all the other mammals (they generally start caring about it once they're in age to mate,  we start caring in elementary school with all the teasing and girl cooties and gross boys). I've established earlier that Reploids are built with secondary sexual characteristics, and just now that Reploids are painfully human-like. They also tend to learn from humans, inheriting our own subconscious traits. They share the same superficial characteristics with humans that allows them to tell genders, ergo, it's a very high probability that they'll inherit our tendancy to care about genders, our own or not.

And, now that I think of it, the gender disparities you mentionned earlier could actually be a circle. A Reploid is made female. She sees other female-type Reploids take navigator or researcher posts, but nearly none taking combative posts. She thinks it's a female Reploid's role to be a Navi or a researcher, and chooses one of these "careers". If Reploids are aware of their gender and others, it means they can very well create their own gender roles, because humans had applied their ideas that a male Reploid would be more suited to combat tasks than a female Reploid (which was probably originally a stylistic decision based on being able to pack more artillery and strength on the males... Female wrestlers look scary!).

Your arguments are based on quite a bit of logic, and extremely consistent, though. I just want to say that it's nice debating with you.