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MotoGP - Your questions answered - 2
11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 10:11AM #11
FRA
Posts: 21

Hi Steve how are you?


Ill made some questions, some personals and others from feedback in FASTER Site (www.ride-faster.net):


1.Sim and Arcade modes: There are fans of both modes so will the game include both modes but clearly differents in order to please both kindof fans? I mean you can make a good sim mode then activate some aids and extras for the arcade mode, like brake aids, gas aids (to evitate slide and crash) and so.


2.What about the sim? Some of the most important features to take care about sim are: -Cornering speed (urt was ultra fast more kindof F1 than MotoGP physic); -Brake power and behaviour (a bike needs much more space to brake and if you brake leaning or just lock the wheel then you say bye bye); -Weather conditions, its time to have hard wet races not just dry races with rain effects, the grip in wet tracks arent the same! ; -Tyre wear, injuries, bike damages, penalties, setups..you know the extra but really cool things. We like to make tests for find a perfect setting (with so much options as a real rider with his bike), take care of the tyre wear to finish the race, see rules flags, ridetroughs...


3.Online Modes: Will be there chat in the rooms? private rooms? Both of them are neccesary to can organize championships and so. Too we´ll like to have various game modes in online not just single race but championships, tests (time trials) and so. And dont miss the option to make the qualify sessions and so in the online to can setup your bike and well, for fun too!


4.No Pc version for sure? No option to see it?


5.What about modding? Will you support the modding as so many other succesful games or not?


6.Will we see the MGP Academy category in Carreer mode or as a kindof tutorial?


7.Will be there IRTA tests, private tests and so in the championships or carrer mode? We miss them to make better settings, developemnt of bike pieces and so like real life. Namco made something similar in MGP4 but the piece tests were a bit stupid just something in this line.


8.After you complete a seasson, all teams and riders will be the same? Maybe a cool thing would be that in next seassons some riders move from team to other teams, change their numbers and so.


9.Real wheater maybe? you know would be cool start a dry race and then start rainning in the middle of the race. This happens a lot in real life too!!


10.Any chance to see legend riders as Extra? Riders like Doohan, Schwantz, Rainey, Gardner, Criville, Katoh, Spencer, Mamola, KR, Abe...even a Safety car would be nice and funny!


11. If you have to define the game, it would me more kinda MotoGP URT Series or like SBK and GP500?Maybe a kindof hybrid like MGP08?


12.If the initial release have bugs, wrong or old skins and so, could be wait for updates or dc packs?


Thank you very much i think here is all


Cheers

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 10:42AM #12
Juho
Posts: 255

Ronin has hit the nail in the head about the player view matter.


It would be REALLY cool to have a realistic player view done the way Ronin described it. In other words you would see what the rider would see in real life and not the tilting "dinghy in a hurricane" effect.

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 11:26AM #13
ROCKGOD01
Posts: 1,038

May 13, 2009 -- 6:58PM, Ronin05 wrote:


ROCKGOD01. Not sure I understand your comment about a lack of  "real feeling" in regards to a stationary horizon.  I don't know if you actually ride or not or have ridden on a track before.  The titled earth view is fine when viewing a video of your riding or watchin a replay.  It sometimes make for interesting viewing.  But most of these are captured by a stationary camera so the view is not an accurate representation of what is being seen through the riders eyes.


As a rider this representation can be very frustrating because it isn't realistic.  The feel of the bike swaying I don't see as an issue because what you are focusing on is the track ahead of you and not the bike. I never think about the actual angle of my bike when on a track. I go by feel and I will lean it over until it feels like it isn't sticking not looks like it isn't sticking.  This "feel" can be gotten by using the vibration features of the controllers which would again be more realistic.   With any racing game played from the 1st person view, you quickly adjust to the space you are occupying so you can gauge distance to avoid collisions with objects be it walls, cars, bikes or whatever.  You don't really need the earth to tilt to let you know that the bike is leaned over.  Instead of tilting the earth to represent this why not either


  1. change the height of the camera when the bike is leaned over.  This would be a truer representation of what a rider sees as obviously your head is closer to the ground when the bike is on it's side. This and my knee are what I use to guage how far the bike is leaned over more than actually knowing how far the bike is leant over (if that makes sense). This would actually be even cooler if they put in a rider edit feature like in Tourist Trophy were you can adjust all aspect of the riders position so you would be able to change the view point of the riders head
  2. expand the view so that you see the top of the bike as if looking at it from the rider's point of view. So you would see the bike (bars, screen , tach, tank, etc...) lean in relation to the track but the horizon would stay correct


It's a simple matter of camera placement and the issue for me is that most are based off a stationary axis (the bike) instead of a mobile axis (the riders head).   Too often I find my neck hurts after playing bike games with the 1st person view because I'm constantly tilting my head to try and correct the perspective


It would simply be nice to have that option, so that people like myself can have what we want, while people he like the tilted earth can also have that.  Honestly I really think you only need 3 views when actually playing the game, while any others are really only useful when viewing replays.


  1. 3rd person view: with the option to zoom in & out as well as raise & lower.  when playing this view I like the rider to be big so I can have a better feel for the scale ratio, but the problem here is generally bad camera placement in that it's too low.   You can't see anything but your rider.  The view with the camera at the correct height is usally zoomed out a bit more than I'd like.  My question is why can't we have booth with the option to move the camera around until it suits the player?
  2. On-bike view: Based on the perspective of the camera being placed on the front of the bike. This is the current defacto standard
  3. On-rider view: Based on the perspective of the camera being placed on the front of the riders head. This would provide the view from the riders eyes.




Ronin


I have ridden quite a bit.   I had a 2000 Ducati 996s. So trust me I get it.  I was just saying in regards to the whole tilting thing that I remember one of the GP games in their options for view you could change between two different axis or tilts.  I think in the one the road tilted and in the other visa versa.  So I was just saying that why can't you have both or make it like you said where you set up the camera where you want it.  That would be the best solution from our end but maybe not the dev's end.

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 11:26AM #14
Ronin05
Posts: 471

yeah I know you people are going to get sick of me but I'd like to comment on something else that was just posted and that is weather.  Again the common myth is that it's difficult to ride in the rain or on a wet track.  I'm sorry it's really not that hard, especially with the quality of tires.   Speaking from experience I've ridden on a wet track and really haven't been that far off my times in the dry.  We rode once early in the season and fate wasn't kind and the temps didn't get over 34 degrees (and that is not an exaggeration)......but the only problem I had was keeping my fingers warm.  There was plenty of grip and i was pissed for not putting new tires on.  


The key is mainly being a bit smoother and making a proper tire choice (dry, int, wet, etc......).  My problem when weather (or leaving the track for that matter) is emplemented in a game is that there seems to be very little thought behind it other than "oh it's wet so we'll just make it slick" or "it's grass so we'll make them fall".  to me that is far less realstic than being able to get a knee down in the wet, which really isn't that hard to do. More than actual traction the biggest problem I have with riding in the wet is the conditions itself.  by that I mean vision issues. Yet this isn't really addressed in games.  Misting, fog, spray off the bike in front of you...... like I said traction generally isn't so much an issue (unless there is a serious amount of standing water) but dealing with the added elements is.


I know we all want a realistic game or as close to one as we can get, but we have keep in mind that some things are impossible while others are just improbable.   Having the IRTA test would be cool but honestly would that anything other than a Time Trial?  Preseason tests in the game, again cool from a realism stand point, but couldn't the same thing be accomplished in the practise sessions of a race?  I guess my point is if too many resources are spent on items that really don't ad that much to the game other than being "exactly real" then other important aspects (like physics engine, AI, etc.......) don't get the attention they deserve.


I really doubt that rider and team changes would be allowed and that would mainly be do to licensing issues. I'm sure Redbull wouldn't want one of their sponsored riders on a team sponsored by Monster.  Yeah it's just a game but they tend not to look at it like that.  I really would be happy with a career mode that simply tracked my stats.  Things like titles won, races entered, fastest laps, etc...... Giving us the oportunity to make a custom season just to keep things interesting would be nice also.


What I'd really like to see is more effect put into the tracks themselves.  I have never ridden on a track that was pool table smooth yet most of the tracks in video games are.  Truer scale in relation to the rider and the track.  MotoGP 08 is horrible in area.  BRNO is a very WIDE track yet you'd never know it from playing it in MotoGP 08.  It's things like these that would make the game more inmersive and challenging.

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 11:48AM #15
ROCKGOD01
Posts: 1,038

The game should be race focused online biased.  There should be a test and tune feature where we can download bike parts; engines, wheels, calipers, forks, maps for the TC and etc.  THis is a part of moto GP and has a solid place in the sport since it is a PROTOTYPE based motorsport.  YOu should have the ability to go on any track and test and tune your parts and setups.  Surly some things are hard to Simulate but ya know what?  The games of today are moving towards a more realistic experience.  Everyone is so worried about graphics and the surface of a game.  I am willing to sacrifice some of that fake realistic part for those features that actually make the experience feel and seem more real like all these things we are talking about.  It would be great to have all of these things at the top level but I don't think these guys have the budget to produce something so dramatic in depth of content.  Why they don't make the game solid and then build on what they have as a base is beyond me.  IF the main parts of the game are solid then they can charge us for DLC to upgrade to the next thing or for parts, tracks, the whole shebang?  I wish these dudes had the major money behind them just once so we finally get a fully comprehensive game reflecting the soul of MOTO GP.

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 12:53PM #16
Ronin05
Posts: 471

There are a couple of problems with you logic Rockgod

  • What is the diference between a test & tune mode and the practice session that is usually already included in the games?  you accomplish the same thing?  What is the difference between "testing & tuning" off line and then loading those settings when you get on line to race?
  • Since we are talking about MotoGP and prototypes, what "engines" and TC maps would there be to downloand and test?  It's not like the MotoGP factory teams give full disclosure about the inner workings of their equipment.
  • I'm all for realism but again how far do you want to take it?  I don't like changing my oil in real life so why would I want to do that in a game.  I personally prefer the progressive feel of Nissin brakes over the instant grab of Brembos, logos aside do I really need to change that? If given the option to adjust the sensitivity of the brakes wouldn't that accomplish the same thing?  Same thing for the wheels, unsprung weight aside wheels are generally wheels and anything other than changing the weight of them in game is purely cosmetic. And that is the same with a lot of the upgrade objects in that the actual upgrade in the code is a simple slide meter and what the player sees is mainly cosmetic branding.  I'd rather have a fully optioned no name suspension configuration mode and having the developer spend time and money just trying get a license from Ohlins to put in the game.  In real life it makes a difference but in the game it really doesn't.
  • I've seen it mentioned before but what is the big deal about showing damage? I'm not knocking it just trying to understand it.  I personally usually turn damage off in all my games because in the end it's just a game. If I'm in a race and I get taken out in the first corner I don't think it's cool or fun that I can't play until the next race. It's not like when you crash the game is going to be able to make you feel the pain form it (and don't think I would want it to if it could). To each his own I guess

I could go on but I hope you get my point. Unless you have millions to spend on a true to life simulator, you have to have reasonable expectations of what you are going to get from $500 console or a PC that cost a couple of grand.


I too will sacrafice graphics for solid game play, but you are taking it to the point of overkill and that has nothing to do with the budget of the company making a game.  It's not hard to make a realistic game, the hard part is making a realistic game that is playable.  How do you put all the feedback you get from a motorcycle into a game and have it come through a simple controller? I'd like nothing more than a deep playing game without a lot of the flash that is usually tacked on, but I realise that not everyone takes it that seriously and the games have to be made entertaining for everyone. Obviously Rockgod you like to tinker and that isn't an insult, I would say I'm in the middle I like to mess with things to a certain point.  But there are a lot out there that just want to play and not have to think about if they have the correct gear ratio set.


I'm in the minority here but I'm not a big DLC content guy and that is mainly the way that consoles handle it.  Unless they give me the option to download the content and burn it to a CD or something I find it to be a big pain in the ass.  Especially if you want to take your game over to a friends house a play.  I would really like it if there was an option to have DLC mailed to you on a CD if they aren't going to let you back it up yourself. the other thing that makes me weary of "moduled" games is that I don't trust the companies.  I don't want to purchase a half completed game with the promise of DLC that will make it complete.   That promise is only as good as the game sells.

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 12:57PM #17
ROCKGOD01
Posts: 1,038

OK Ronin you completely missed my point.  Plus your post is way to long.  I am basicly saying they no matter whatever they call it need some cool DLC.  I just think that they have the ability to do it and make it worth while.  No one said crap about changing oil.  I just want a game that has depth so you don't want to put it down after the first night.  I also believe that the setups and parts thing would give the game that dimension it needs. 

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 1:03PM #18
Ronin05
Posts: 471

no i didn't miss your point I understand it completely.  I just used the oil as an example for overkill.   DLC is cool if it is extra but the game should be as complete as possible when you purchase it.   I truly believe a good solid game engine provides more depth and replay value than a bunch of DLC (unless it's new tracks and bikes).  To me a racer should inspire you to get better be it shooting for leader boards or winning online races.  That desire to go faster is why I mess with configurations....to try to get the bike to do what I want it to.  and like in real life once it does you push further and just mess it up again!!! a very vicious circle indeed.


i do agree with you in that there is too much focus on flash and not enough on substance. A deep game goes further to replay value than addiny a new livery.   Unfortunately too many companies do just that, offer DLC that is purely cosmetic

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 1:06PM #19
FRA
Posts: 21

Ronin, some points youre right, some others not. At last for me of course.


Ive ridden several bikes too (GSX600Rk5, CBR600Fk7, GSX1000Rk7, Fireblade900K2, RS250, RS125...)so i know a bit about how a motorbike works too.


About brakin level im not with you in a comment you made about SBK08. Maybe it could need a bit more (or maybe more progressive/sensitive)but not 200% !!!


Same with wet races...The main difference in wet conditions (im talkin by experience too) isnt just the grip? Grip is all here. You cant lean the same as in dry conditions or you fall, and you cant brake or throttle the same way or you fall too. Wet conditions means a smoother riding or crash.


The cool point about bike damages for me is easy: Im not a MGP rider so when i play a MGP game i want to feel like if im. And when a rider fall in a GP then he cant continue. Just have to remember fallings means to Rossi lost his tittle so yeah is an important thing. I like to be concentrated not just in ride at max but takin care of my bike and rider, knowin that if i fail in one race i lost 25pts. And well theres an easy option to make all people happy: Bike Damages On/Off. Theres no need to discuss about not implement it.


The same with IRTA, tests and so. For some people is fun not just to ride in GPs but develope and upgrade their bikes. So tests and IRTA ones are perfect scenario to make it. It makes it more real and gives you another ways but just GPs and GPs.

11 months ago  ::  May 14, 2009 - 1:25PM #20
ROCKGOD01
Posts: 1,038

Okey dokey!!  So here we go again.  


1.  Game should be dev'd from the point that the main focus should be solid racing with the ability to make yourself faster by making setups.  The bias should be online vs. being offline.  Most who play this game take it online and barely even race offline if only to add credits to build a bike. This all includes the handling and etc.


2.  Game should have depth and as close to a visceral experience through DLC that has a basis in bike performance with rumble in the controller to give feeback to the gamer while feeling the road underneath the bike. 


3.  Game should have scoreboards that reflect style of play be it as basic or simulated as possible.  The cheat stuff we all talked about insert here.


4.  Sounds should be recorded from actual rev's of the real machines and implimented into the game.  It can be done. 


5.  looks should be up to date of course but not at the expense of depth of content. 


 


NOw this is very very basic in nature but come on why is this news to anyone?  The game needs something to take it to the next level.  I agree about damage really it is cool but I don't see it as a function rather a neat feature.  Sorta like when they talked about the crowd movement and stuff.  Who really can watch that at 150+mph?  It needs to be a solid racer from the start that the online is bulletproof.  Have the championship modes and all that to make it fun for everyone who races online and that is many.  As for the other stuff people always complain how hard it is and tough to mold to each persons race style.  That is why setups are important so they can get something setup enough to breed the confidence to push it a bit.  The other stuff is to be there to add to that and have some fun testing and tuning.  That is what they do at the tests.  I don't know call them IRTA test and go test. 

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