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Camera and Options!
7 months ago  ::  Sep 05, 2009 - 2:22PM #1
Greg
Posts: 61




Hello friends,


I thought I would try and take a little time out this weekend and get stuck into the forums here at Capcom Unity.  


So first up, Steve has been doing an absolutely fantastic job with connecting you guys to us, the more you hassle him, the more he can hassle the development team and me!  Remember his job is to serve you (sorry Steve – my motive is get you grabbing more vids!)


Now onto camera’s,


I’ve seen a number of posts relating to how the bike should pivot at the tyre and not through the centre line of the bike, as seen in some of the video’s.


Well,  I can 100% confirm that is the behaviour of the bike,  just there is an illusion which makes it look like the tyre is sliding under the bike.  


This illusion is caused when the camera’s focus is locked on the centre of the bikes tail, so essentially keeping the bikes tail always in the centre of the screen.  This is the camera behaviour which you used to see in the Namco GP’s.


In the Climax GP’s the camera would focus on the contact point of the tyre.  This would keep the base of the tyre locked in the centre of the screen, re-enforcing that the bike is in fact pivoting over the contact point.


So why in the video’s didn’t we see any of the above behaviour; well simply because it was a bug which wasn’t fixed in time for the video!


But with the bug, we found that actually some people in the studio preferred the first system!?   So this started us thinking, and leads me into little bit about what Ronin05 was saying.


We are simply going to give the option to the player to choose how they want the camera to behave (we not fully sure how to encourage players to go in and ‘play’ with this option yet), but inside the ‘Game Settings’ (yes assessable in game) you can switch the camera type.


Further to this, you can also turn on and off the horizon tilt, which will emulate the rider’s head either trying to stay level (camera), or the camera tilting as the rider head would.


We are also looking into what other ‘options’ we can include, based on the feedback in these forums.  But I have to say I whole-heartedly agree that users should be able to –refine there experience.


 

7 months ago  ::  Sep 05, 2009 - 4:46PM #2
HeYjOe
Posts: 812

Great read & info.  I thought you knew your stuffLaughing

7 months ago  ::  Sep 05, 2009 - 5:56PM #3
Greg
Posts: 61

We won't allways get it 'all' right, but as a development team we do listen and if a good idea dosn't make it into MotoGP09/10 then I will work my ass off to make sure it's in for the next one.

7 months ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 1:41PM #4
WALKEN
Posts: 1,368

Hello Greg!


I noticed in the 2 resent videos that there is a In/Out type thing going on. Like (Close/in) under braking and (Far/out) upon accel..?


I imagine this is a/the camera option (one of) that half team liked, hence why considing options.. Camera views IMO should be there as options for the player to pick which one they prefer.


I prefer chase cam 2 in the Climax series. I don't like chase 1 where the environment is moving as well as the bike. I like the environment to be stable hence my questioning the first videos view point having this In/Out effect.  


If I was to be stuck with this one view I'd be very unhappy. 


Not sure of your involvement on MotoGP 1 (Climax) but the bike to track translation is perfect IMO. As I've said a million times, I view this as being a tiny remote controlled bike on a track, Not a real bike or emulation of a real bike.. If I was aiming for real world effects as a designer, I would be working on the physics of First Person view.


Not to mislead you to think I am a huge fan of FPV, but viewing the bike from a 3rd person perspective is RC racing IMO. I love that feeling of RC effect. I hope you understand my point here. I'm not addressing my opinion for other members to rebutle it. I think both perspective should be well worked..


Designing the view, be it First person or 3rd person IMO should be individual. Designing it in one or the other alone with the option of switching back and forth could be awful from both sides of the coin. 


I wish there was a way for me to break down the view/lean angle etc,,, of Gp1 to you to help get my point across. 


Its almost lke the tires themselves squish under accel/braking, even cornering. Everything together seems to be working together and it all flows..


In other brands, (Namco) everything feels stiff and ridgid. Even thought the bike does this hobby horse effect to trick the eye into seeing shock and swingarm movement it hits a dead wall because of this side to side leaning angle being stiff like a sheet of plywood on its narrow edge.. I'm not saying Gp1 (Climax) got real world leaning physics perfect, but I am saying the screen to eye translation in Chase 2 view (3rd person) is a perfect emulation of a Toy RC bike, which to me in that perspective is dead nuts (perfect)!     


Can you enlighten me farther as to what made Gp1 so perfect an how that can be an asset to the currant build?


Thx.

7 months ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 1:56PM #5
MaTriX-ITA-
Posts: 87

walken write :I prefer chase cam 2 in the Climax series. I don't like chase 1 where the environment is moving as well as the bike. I like the environment to be stable hence my questioning the first videos view point having this In/Out effect.  


 


walken wrote :Not sure of your involvement on MotoGP 1 (Climax) but the bike to track translation is perfect IMO. As I've said a million times, I view this as being a tiny remote controlled bike on a track, Not a real bike or emulation of a real bike.. If I was aiming for real world effects as a designer, I would be working on the physics of First Person view.


 


totally agree wiv walken 100%..u need to do these thing first..and u r on the right way..all motogp players think like this...


pls Greg make motogp an epic game like STREET FIGHTER4.. SHOW WHAT MONUMENTAL GAMES IS ABLE TO DO! I M SURE U WILL!


and god bless walken ! listen 2 him ..he's always right in giving advice...Laughing

7 months ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 2:09PM #6
Greg
Posts: 61

"I noticed in the 2 resent videos that there is a In/Out type thing going on. Like (Close/in) under braking and (Far/out) upon accel..?"


 


Can you give me little more info on this one?  IS this something you don't like,  (correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was allot of in/out camera movement on the climax games?

I will strike up GP2 and take a look at that secound camera ASAP.

Any video's you can give to suppor these comments will also help.

((PS does anyone else find there forums a dog to use?))

7 months ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 2:19PM #7
WALKEN
Posts: 1,368

Greg, I would love to sit here and explain thius but I have a Labor Day function to be at ASAP..


But I will address my feelings later..


And to answer your question about the In/Out effect of the currant build, NO I don't like it at all... Looks cheesy.


No Climax series didn't have this In/out effect..


Also Motion Blur is IMO a no no! On a PC version of GP this isn't a huge deal as Turning off Antialising does the trick into being able to pear into th  e apex/corners better.


Heres a video of Gp 1 to have a look at, its not to judge my skill level its just me messing about.


 


www.youtube.com/watch?v=geru1VB8m1Q


Pay close attention to the angle of the tire. Its almost C shaped and leans according to its shape using all of the C shape angle to make the lean natural looking not ridgid and stiff. Its flowing and natural...


OK Greg gots to go... I'll have a Jameson for the Monumental Team. Cheers!  :)

7 months ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 2:26PM #8
MaTriX-ITA-
Posts: 87

here it is 1 more video taken from gp 07...the camera's always the same in all gp series ,i mean the second camera, stable enviroment and realistic bike transation..


www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN-qn_2vUws


ps (very important..when the bike starts going faster, it has to get smaller and going in the middle of the screen..and when close the gas it has to get bigger and come at the botton of the screen 4 giving more sense of velocity)

7 months ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 2:41PM #9
Greg
Posts: 61

Looking at both those videos, the FOV and camera distance increases with speed, pulls in under breaking.   This is what I've interpreted as the in-out effect and perhaps why I was little confused.


I will take a close look at our build when I’m next in the office.   Also to this end, I’m planning on working with Steve to put some game play video’s out which you guys can scrutinize the handling and camera behaviour.

7 months ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 4:34PM #10
HeYjOe
Posts: 812

Sep 6, 2009 -- 2:09PM, Greg wrote:


((PS does anyone else find there forums a dog to use?))




Let me answer the question you posed Greg, YES!!!! to the NthLaughing

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