Oct 17, 2009 -- 5:49PM, gog wrote:

Anyone who know my views already knows that I detest the chase view and the arcade settings.  Not thats it's bad for beginners,  but for people playing for years with a camera view that is off bike, behind and elevated.. nuts..

The biggest excuse I hear, against the cockpit.helmet, is that it's disorientating.... So is leaning over a real bike.  Thats why we look to apex, tilt AND twist our heads during extreme leaning.  I made a quick vid with fraps while I tried mouselook in GP-Bikes by Piboso.

Capcom... please start addressing the reality part of your offerings and balance the arcade stuff with some reality based offers.   Everything you need to offer us these things ALREADY exists.Please give us control of the bikes with a robust, comprehensive controller support code instead of dummying down the physics to make it playable with a stupid arcade controller. . Support IR tracker/mouselook would be simple to add and a hec of a lot of fun.  In other sims, I can use racing pedals, keyboard, the twist of my joystick and mouselook all at once,  but you offer zero support for any combinations,  just lame pad support that is migrated from console...  puh lease...

 

 

Hey Gog I think most of us would agree about the on bike/helmet view.  It does make for one heck of a ride if done properly.  I have to say that moto gp 08 for the 360 had this actually done pretty well.  There were a few views offered and they were real cool and very emersive.  I can't see them doing anything of the sort for keyboard and mouse since the game is going to be console only.  Dude we are having a hard enough time getting fully mapable controllers let alone now add a whole new set of controls.  But options are the spice of motogp!

There are quite a few motorcycle sims out there at this time.  IMO, they all have something brilliant and yet the "master" simulation evades any one maker.  I've checked out anything I could get my hands on and I noticed today that someone is making an open source motorcycle sim. That may be the future.

I think that sim developers should get out of the track business.  Leave that to mega servers that broadcast the scanned tracks to the world's leagues.   Be it , motorcycles, cars, trucks, whatever.  The track should be the track, official.. no more "versions" of each track.   That would lend an authentic feeling to all.   They could license from the official track/track server.  Low pings for all and official stats and numbers for competitors of all classes. 

  Not keeping records is what makes these games cheap and disposable.  Replacing versions instead of evolving them is making each "version" forgettable instead of a memorable stepping stone to better simulation. Wasting money on DVDs is sad and old fashioned.  Wasting time on juvenile animations means that they are shooting for juveniles.  I guess,  if they have the money,  but they dont have the same money that older, dedicated, competitors have.

So the sim makers become bike/series makers.    They supply the series and the virtual bikes/physics/parameters etc.  We race their offerings on "official, super authentic, low ping" tracks.  why have 50 different versions of a track?  Each one different instead of one,  the best simulated one and one it is for all.  Think of it like googe earth.  Imagine 50 different "interpretations" of earth maps.   I like the satellite/laser version and the official google,  thats all I need right now.

 

After the +100 bike physics, the +100 scanned tracks, the +100 audio, 3d glasses with bodytrack, stats, fast networks support and prizes.... we will need a controller.  A controller.  Who would make a motorcycle controller?  Honda of course.

 

 

 

Oct 18, 2009 -- 3:19AM, Juho wrote:

That was a good video gog. That's the first cockpit view I find playable -> no tilting earth and actually seeing where you are going.

To work it would require TrackIR or similar system, maybe Natal could be used for this in the future?

As for the current consoles it may be a difficult task to achieve. Controlling the view manually would be too much for me at least, I'm struggling enough with the bike alone. Letting the computer control the view... well, it might work but  it's doubtful.

 

At some point in the future you will see a SIM fully realized on a console.  Now it is going to have to come where the companies who say NEXT GEN type statements are actually true.  But if you think logically then the natural thing that is across the board for really every game is PROGRESSION.  So that means it has to get better every time as a new iteration makes its way to us.  So it may take along time but again someday you will have to see this happen.  I do believe that the new xbox feature that gives you the abiliity to scan your sk8board for instance is the natural progression of exactly what I am talking about.  Think of it like this.  It wasn't but 25 years ago we all were playing the game astroids or pitfall on the atari system.  SO look how far we have come in that time.  Now think about the last five or six years and the progression of technology.  We will have a powerful console system support what we are talking about.  Arcade mode will still be there but it will be reduced to a training mode of sorts.  The bottom line is that anything games wise especially a series such as moto gp that has been so far a progression of sorts will get to something more real than you could expect.  I seriously doubt by that time a company like capcom or even monumental would be involved since they don't make games that really get that emmersive.  Capcom makes more of the arcade cartoon type games.  Monumental if they were solely focused on this title and understood the need for progression of things could possibly be one that travels with the series.  But look at turn 10 and the quality so far of even forza where they even take in sidewall flex for a tire and such.  You could right now set up your three tv's and have the steering wheel and pedals all right in place to feel like a car.  SO we can't be really all that far from the bike version of this.  THe onboard view that we had last version was decent so if you had bars and footpegs if that is what you wanted you could almost have that feel.  But it won't be all that much longer.  These companies so far have failed miseralbly and in order for something to change it ususlly takes a crisis situation to effect that change. 

Oct 18, 2009 -- 1:15PM, Juho wrote:

I hear you Rock. It does seem though, that the MotoGP stands out as an exception to the trend of games being developed further and deeper, more immersive and more complex a la Forza. (evethough console games seem to still suffer from being dumbed down for "accessibility").

MotoGP franchise keeps getting remade year after year and unlike other long lived franchises seems to get lamer and lamer by each year.

Because there is so little competition the developers get away with it with our money.

Think about a scenario where the next Forza  would be announced not having for example editable liveries, no mappable controllers, no damage modelling no saveable setups and no saveable replays... This is what we have been and are being fed along with barrage of excuses.

Try this crap in the car games world and the devloper would be eaten alive.

I'm again having one of my less constructive days.

 

 

Yep and the reason why they won't take out that livery editor is because they have found a brand new way of bringing revenue to a game without even some of those artists ever DRIVING a car.  I am sure some do to get cars unlocked but they buy that game to become a famous forza artist.  Nothing wrong with that and guess what?  Forza just made more money than they had ever counted on because of an OPTION!!!!  This is why as companies progress and they hopefully get smarter as gamers want more they will have to do what we want or eventually it just all goes away.  This is the area where companies feel as though they can do what they want and get away with it.  But it is this thinking that is the most dangerous by those who think that way in a company.  So you will see a progression finally make it to what I am talking about but it is gonna take as long a time for the developers to smarten up and do the golden rule of business.  THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!

"gog", ... We have already talked and argue about these, but nevertheless at some point in the future I'll see this cockpit view implemented in the game if the gamers wants it, but for now people are struggling with the developers to get the most basic physics working properly not to mention that cockpit view that will dazed and confuse you. That video example it looks good at times because it is a slow riding and still whoever is playing it has a hard time to keep the bike on the tarmac, and how the player is going to keep on a fast pace playing if cam view move fast right, fast left ?. think about it.

I have said it a trillion times, IF physics, proper handling, accurate track dimentions, a real input data from bikes and riders data are implemented into the game, then we can talk about "SIMULATION", otherwise any Racing game will remain an "ARCADE" game.