Nov 4, 2009 -- 4:36PM, gog wrote:

Not much cost added to allow looking(mouselook, tracker IR or controller axis enabling), tilting the ground(auto even would be nice!) and allowing 3d rider movement... BFD.   It doesnt "cost" much for developers to allow you to switch views or choose collisions etc.  A few lines of code. (scanning is becoming commonplace)

I don't think anyone would argue against having extra features, but I don't think the developers are going to lose any sleep by denying you your desire to have a sim mode with a single view.

But bandwidth is cheap, so keep on typing...

This is what happens fellas.  Post all your super smooth Go Pro Wide flics.  You post a fixed camera view and claim that is what you should see?  Ha de ha ha ha.   If you want to "simulate" doing what she is doing in this video, you dont start with a fixed camera or a chase camera or a TV camera.  You must be wherre the pilot is.  Helmet cam come close to capturing what it is like. ... whats so hard about acknowledging that?   I admit I may not want it that bumpy so no biggie there.

NO get this:  NO simulator, that trains for real life actions,  trains professionals with a chase view or T-Cam or ANY OTHER view other than what the traineee is going to see!!!!!  NONE!!!!  Did I say zero?  Great,  then you understand.

You guys seem determined to water down the definition of simulation.   Maybe we could call the cockpit sim part "professional simulation"  That way,  amateur arcade would sound better too.  Or, how about just calling simulation simulation and simulate... the rest is the rest of it.

A real track, a real cockpit, a real perspective.  ONLY a fixed camera view.  To make it realistic looking, you have to observe what the real ridr's head is doing and ALLOW it in game!!!

Head movement study... while racing... (Should be enabled for MotoGP realistic experience)

Ranging height from track= 26- 50"  Ranging distance from real handlebars(forward/backward)= 2-18"

Ranging sidways from T-Tree bolt, 0-18"  Ranging height from tank(up/down) 0-18"

Tilting = 0-45°  Twisting = 0-180°

Arcade views sure do make it easier,  I agree.

Spoken like someone who's never been on a race track with a motorcycle... NEVER huing it out there.  Never grabbed a serious handful of brakes, never twisted and tilted your head and never dawned a helmet and leathers.

Thanks for your arcade, non sensible, illogical input,  yet again.

"SBK 09 cockpit view has a total ARCADE look"

You call your cockpit view realistic?  hahah dont make me laugh, please.  If SBK09's cockpit would level and look like GP-Bike's does,  it would be very realistic.  Tell us what your "experience" on real bikes has taught you.

You may relate well to the current programmers who, obviously, know very little about the look or the feel or real motorcycles.  You back up what they say...and do it well! 

Tell us man,  about your comparisons to real life motorcycle ridding.  How many years have you been making notes from the track?  It's obvious that you've never tucked behind a cockpit or hung off the side of your bike or watched your cockpit dive below you under braking,  you have no experience and neither do the devos so:  Dont talk of things you know so little about.

If you cant handle simple improvements to simulating reality than I suggest, you probably couldn't/shouldn't ride for real then...  Maybe, someday, we sim nuts will get our mRacing and there wont be a need to beg for realistic view and physics from game arcade programmers and geeks.  Real riders will just do it right and I wont have to bother, or bother with, arcade gamers anymore...

Until then,  dont confuse reality with arcade.

Nov 6, 2009 -- 5:01PM, gmontalc wrote:

I don't think it's necessary for me to give you my curriculum of my races as a SBK or 500cc rider, there's no point of argument of that to realized that those videos game play and videos of real races aren't into the same mold.  If you have raced for real then don't compare a "game" with the real thing.

What? um, er, ug, doh, yikes, oops....    First off,  many racers are quoted as thanking their consoles for them  learning the layout of a track they hadn't been to before. Why do you think people want laser scanned tracks?  They want the real thing 'recreated' AKA..SIMULATED! Track scanning is the ultimate(so far) comparison of reality and transfer to virtual reality.  What you say there is rubbish.... sorry, but it is...Sir.  Millions of reference pings and points to the "real thing".  I want the same attention given to physics and perspective... you dont so you should not join "simulation" games, no biggie there.

My requests for cockpit improvements shouldn't affect you in the slightest.  Except if you ever get interested in simulation over arcade, then you'd be applauding my efforts.   ANyone who doesnt want a laser scanned track is more a gamer than a simmer.  No?   Same goes for views.  You dont think about look to apex issues or other reality based issues because you dont need them...  You're flying! I need improvements to play more realistically.  Lucky you,   the easy way is available now and it's less stress on you,   thats for sure.  I just want gaming and simming improved but separated properly, not one of them eliminated... can Capcom do it?  You say nay and I say yay.

The videos of SBK09 "cockpit view" are looking good specially with the background music and all, but don't tell me that is the way a real SBK bike behave.

Why are you not asking for what is needed for it to look more realistic?  I am not asking for the moon,  just proper orientation and glance and axis additions and separations.   oooooh  tooo scary and tooooo much for people I hear.

 

Let me ask you this 0ppenheimer:  If you want to drift your bike through a left going corner, how do you counter steer to the right(for a drift) and NOT have the rider shift his weight(now it's combined with steering and will shift him when you go for the counter steer.) to the right when you steer that way?  I dont see you asking them to separate the axis.  Your arcade mindset keeps you from deconstructing what is happening in reality and asking the devos for what is needed to achieve more realism within budget, space and money restrictions.  I dont ask for great detours or extravagance, there's more extravagance in the music and dysfunctional, counter intuitive menus they develop then what I am asking for. . . 

Try to think how important it is to get the reality correct and then allow people to "scale" off the reality to suit their tastes and/or skills.  It doesn't work the other way round!!!!!

Just make also videos of 3rd person view, and you'll see that the SBK09 is a slow and lame game. post them for every one to see it.

I have never done a lap in chase view.  I watched a couple.. they look like the 1980s to me.  Watched chase view "world record" holder leave the throttle on full and lock rear brake through almost all corners in helicopter view,  ya,  really convincing realism...lol.... n o t  I enjoy close racing(who doesn't? on or off track)in this more realistic physic.  I want it perfected and I want it yesterday.

To imposed your way of playing is kind of silly,

Imposed?   You mean if you wanted to simulate with others who were on the bike seat,  you still would want to be in chase view with us?   hahahah  You'd be offended if a "Real Mode" didnt allow chase view?  C'mon.

because everyone plays on their own pace and likes. I see your point of a more realistic tilt cam view and Laser Scan to be incorporate into the games, I want that real bad too, yet SBK09 is not a good example.  "It's not personal, it's just about a game"

I'm sorry but I see you dont set your sights very high. You should ask for the apex when you are asked for your contribution from the devos.  Instead,  you ask them to refine their mistakes or early works... guess works. I am asking them to include realism and give it the stature it deserves.   They could splash [ R E A L ] mode!  on the box cover and in the promotions.  It is exciting.  Separate it from Arcade but give the axis, control and view support it needs to raise the bar on realism.   There's no stopping accurate simulations anyway gmon...   I dont want to sim race against Elvis Presley or David Copperfield or Helicopters or RC controllers... or Santa Claus... even if I could use chase view from the Sled.