Theres no such thing as tiers..it just a stupid idea. All that matters are people using the character.

Isnt honda considered top tier?? if so why is guile (mid tier) a bad match up him?

tiers is BS man, whoever thought and who ever suscribes to it dosnt know anything

Jan 19, 2009 -- 2:28PM, M wrote:

Theres no such thing as tiers..it just a stupid idea. All that matters are people using the character.

Isnt honda considered top tier?? if so why is guile (mid tier) a bad match up him?

 

tiers is BS man, whoever thought and who ever suscribes to it dosnt know anything

Honda is upper-mid tier at best.

Tiers do not say who beats who based on what tier they are in alone.

It's not really even possible to construct a list that works that way because many matches are ideosyncratic.

The more good matches you have and the few worse matches you have for a particular character, the higher tier a character is going to be.

For example, Fei is considered a lower-tier character in classic ST because he has so many bad matches and so few good ones. And the one's he's good at fighting kinda get beaten by everybody else anyway - that is to say that the one's he beats are more or less low tier characters too.

There's one exception to this however and that is Chun Li. It can be argued based on past results and player preferences that Fei actually has an advantage when fighting Chun Li.

Does this automatically mean that Chun Li is lower tier than Fei?

Hell to the no!

Chun still beats far more other characters than Fei does and has fewer bad matches only considered to be at a disadvantage against Fei, claw, and Ryu.

Here's that interesting chart again.

 http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/11/super-turbo-new-arcadia-diagram.html

It focuses on N. characters in classic ST. So while it has value since they games are very similiar, there are bound to be a few mostly subtle differences. I said mostly subtle, but Sagat's info would be more different than most since he has that infusion of O Sagatness.

It has a points system, so it lists all the matchups, then the relative points value of that character.

A character wih many good matchups will have a large positive #.

A character like classic Hawk with pretty much hard matches all around, gets a negative score.

These are based on pro vs. pro, so it is also only so useful when talking about most matchups between most players. The skill difference in any two players on avarage is going to have a much greater variation than you would expect to see in the upper brackets of a major tournament with qualifying tournaments.

So if for Otochun and Kusomondo, vs. Honda, Chun Li is considered a 7.5 out of 10 in terms of effectiveness (not expected matches won out of 10 - totally not that)

I digress, so if for those two, against Honda, chun is a 7.5. That doesn't mean that any random player will lose to any random chun player. It may suggest that the probability is greater if the pro's are correct, but at the end of the day, it is a match between two players, not two characters and the difference in skill between amatures is going to bury the character differences in statistical noise.

I guess I'm trying to say that the differnce between the people is likely to be greater than the advantage or disadvantage imparted in a matchup. And in any case those listings assume both players know all the counters and counter counters inside out for that matchup.

Amatures as a group and usually as individuals are more inconsistant than pros. So what for a pro makes a real differnce, to an amature, they may not notice the difference at all.

It's like expensive golf clubs - indespensible for a pro, but most amatures wouldn't notice the effect on their game.

M, I'm supporting your philosophy here.

People, don't worry about your matchups too much, just have fun.

"But Otochun says this match is a disadvantage...."

Are you Otochun? Is your opponent Diago?

No?

Than don't worry about it.

Tiers are real in a sense and can be interesting tools to analyze a tournament or whatever, but on a day to day basis, they're nothing to get overly hung up on.

Jan 19, 2009 -- 11:32PM, Top KaTT wrote:

^ Was he talking about hd remix?

But the real reason I can list blanka is.

Because really how not good do you have to be at hdremix to be good with blanka.

I can beat a person with all his normal characters but then blanka for reason is just beter. Im pretty sure i could give my sister a walk thru with blanka to beat 10 people online and she does not know what street fighter is.

hell get a blanka player who knows what hes doing even more crazy. Because the the way i see it half the people that pick blanka only pick him cause they know they can win with him. but they suck with everyone else. I never saw a person pick blanka 2 times in a row if they won, unless they where a good blanka player.

Blanka is a play to win character for people who can't win with anyone else. Thats why he's top teir.

Akuma you have to actually have some skill to play akuma.

Not too many non-skilled Blanka players will pass my random select even. I'd say a crappy Akuma could beat a crappy Blanka player even. Akuma can just jump 'n air fireball nonstop to shut down 90% of crap Blanka players. I pick Blanka cuz I am confident I can hang in there with him 'n put the pressure on. I can't really agree that crap Blanka players can beat out good players. Blanka just intimidates people, when he's used to rush in 'n poke constantly. There's lots of tough matchups for Blanka though. I have seen some sick Blankas though, like "Real Decoy". Dude has a nasty, very agile Blanka. I'm just pretty good, but that dude is a monster with him. When people win with crap Blankas, it's usually against crap players that have no idea what the best counter is for what the Blanka player is doing.

KY, Blanka is actually low-tier. At least to tournament players. People aren't saying that he's radically better in remix either.

Look at nohoho's classic ST chart to get a close idea. (classic ST is different, but they are so similiar that tiers have been more like compressed than changed outright)

Oh and Honda kills Blanka pretty good. I regularly kill Decoy just by slapping and waiting to use the headbutt. Blanka has no good answer for that.

Decoy is good, probably better than myself, but the Honda edge gives me plsnty of W's over him. He's one of the best Blanka's on live.

I'm one of the better Honda's, but I still think he's better than me and it's just the Honda edge in this matchup that is making the difference. What I have to do to win is easier than what he has to do to beat me.

If you're a shoto, just prevent with a FB, or block. You don't have to punish every time. Be more conservative and you should have the beast on the run.