Jul 3, 2009 -- 2:30PM, Exogen wrote:

 

actually I play dictator/bison as my main so I don't mess with projectiles unless I'm using shoto's or guile but there is nothing wrong with projectiles. basically you just don't understand the concept of  projectile zoning.  zoning via projectiles is not hard to get around. you just have to understand distance and recovery time.

also each projectile does only minimal damage as compared to an ultra. look at akuma's air fireballs. honestly no matter who I use I NEVER have a problem with projectile characters.

ultras on the other hand are quite literally for noobs and people who don't understand the other technical aspects of the game. after all, it is defended on this forum so rigorously that the ultra was made for newbies that don't know anything to have at least a fighting chance. but then at the higher levels when the skills are equal it is just simply rewarding the loser.

every time you land an ultra on a projectile character and you were on the cusp of losing, just know that quite literally without ultra, you were trash that round.

how about just learn about zoning?

Wow... just wow....

I know whats zoning is and know how to best overcome it, i honestly dont have a problem with it in competitive play and please dont tell me what i should learn about.

If you keep getting hit from ultra you mabe need to learn about ultras and how not to be caught by them, chun lis ultra is not without its risks and combo'ing into it and getting the full effect of the ultra isnt possible the developers put this in the game so mabe if your not happy about it this games isnt designed for you.

If the person i just ultra'ed got it because he didnt know chun had this ultra then he wasnt worth the win so was bad in that round...

As for ultras being for newbs i seem to remember one being used at evo once....

Jul 3, 2009 -- 5:18PM, Zombiebrian wrote:

Wow... just wow....

I know whats zoning is and know how to best overcome it, i honestly dont have a problem with it in competitive play and please dont tell me what i should learn about.

If you keep getting hit from ultra you mabe need to learn about ultras and how not to be caught by them, chun lis ultra is not without its risks and combo'ing into it and getting the full effect of the ultra isnt possible the developers put this in the game so mabe if your not happy about it this games isnt designed for you.

If the person i just ultra'ed got it because he didnt know chun had this ultra then he wasnt worth the win so was bad in that round...

As for ultras being for newbs i seem to remember one being used at evo once....

ok well if you know what it is and you therefore should also know I would surmise, that zoning has been in SF always, I don't see your point?

projectile zoing is in it self a cumulative damage strategy because each projectile is very weak and most anti-airs aside from ryu cannot lead into further damage. even still say for guiles flash kick to double flash, he needs a super.

but if you break through the zoning trap and score a hit or simply close the distance the potential for you to combo them and punish a mistake can be great i.e. jumping over hado simultaneously on anticipation and in some cases reaction to jump kick followed by combo.

so the penalty for improper zoning strategy can be very large.

furthermore zoning in many cases is not always reaction based by predictive. the person is guessing if you are going to jump or not as is the case with goukens aggressive keep away zoning.

now to correct you. I never said how often I have been hit by an ultra. but in the case of chuns ultra you can counter a projectile on reaction which is stupid. also in light of that, it isn't a question of knowing if the other person had the ultra. now that person must tread very lightly for one slip up and it's over BECAUSE you have al ultra. that's stupid. your the one who got your health diminished not the other person, so why should they pay a penalty that can turn the tide of the game only because you suck?

another correction, I did not say ultras only applied to noobs. I said it gave them a chance but more impotently it rewards the loser which applies to all levels of play including tournaments. and I would cite tournaments as a prime example of their stupidity.

Then explain SFII.

edit-

Btw, I'm arguing about your claim that Ultras are stupid because it defeats zoning and it's only for noobs because they don't understand the technical aspects of the game.

Jul 3, 2009 -- 8:57PM, Exogen wrote:

Jul 3, 2009 -- 8:41PM, PG > C wrote:

^You were able to go through/beat projectiles with some supers in every other SF game, why does the fact that Ultras being able to do the same thing bother you so much?

easy to answer. two issues with them.

first: with a super you would have to wait at least to the end of the round to charge the bar up assuming your not using much in the way of EX moves, if at all, and most impotently, you would have to do so mainly by attacking and doing things. even in older games were you could gain the power up by doing regular moves you still would have to do something. they way the super bar charges now is pretty good. some energy comes from taking damage but not as much as inflicting it.

ultras on the other hand are a reward for losing. that is for taking damage. the only way to get ultra energy is to take damage. and the meeter does not charge relative to your heath percentage either (not that, that scenario would be any better).

second: given the first reason that they reward the person who is losing the fight, they take absurd amounts of damage unlike a super.

so do you see now how a super and an ultra are totally different. supers you get less damage that you have to work for and an ultra you get more damage that you get simply for being a person losing the fight.

assuming ultras were dissipated at the end of every round as they are now, ultras would be better if they reduced the maximum damage by 50% and made it so you could only gain ultra by using an focus attack hyper armor absorption.

this way there is a risk in trying to build an ultra but there would be a reward. thus punishment and reward and more incentive to keep the fight going. a step away from the overly defensive metagame that is SF4.

 

You took everything and made it as clear as day. i think the same exact thing you are saying in this thread its the perfect wat of explaining how dumb the ultras are in this game to be rewarded to the losing. i like the regular way you built up your super and use it.Ultra's are crazy they can make sumthin happen because it takes down more than half of your life. Now if you play with people who have low health like Viper, Akuma and so on if you were to get hit by gief's or akumas or sagat ultras it puts you so far down in the danger zone like you were in a battle when you were not. The idea of ultras are cool but they way they are givin and used is terrible for the game. i rather have them stop the lil cut scenes they have at every single ultra. It gives people way to much time to think like you can really plan your next move like its nothing man.