Should Final Fight characters keep their availability to Return?
Alright. with this debate going on in so many threads, i think it's time this debate found a home. So far the FF characters have been banned from Sf4. How do you feel about it. And how would you feel if this was a trend? FF and SF have been intertwined for years. here is a list of most of the proof.
here is proof SF and FF are intergrated: Final Fight was originally titled Street Fighter '89 Cammy in FFSW
Playable FF characters in SF: Cody in SFA3 Guy in SFA, SFA2, SFA3 Maki in SFA3M Sodom in SFA, SFA2, SFA3 Rolento in SFA2, SFA3 Hugo in SF3ts note: I am aware that canon wise, Hugo is only a SF character. But it is clear by looking at him, that he is part of the Andore family which ORIGINATES from FF.
TAS: Note that Hugo is technically a SF character, he was created for SF3 (based on the Andore family from FF) and is copyrighted as a SF character.
FF character Cameos in SF: just about every FF character possible in Guy's stage in SFA2 Haggar again in Guy's stage in SFA3 Poison in SF3 with Hugo note: this is important, because though she isn't a playable character, she is A PART od Hugo's story. not just a character in the background. So we have a FF character that is part of SF3 canon. Poison in SFA3 with Hugo
One of the wrestlers named Biff from the wrestling series Slammasters mentioned Zangief as his comrade in his lose quote and Mike Haggar trained both Biff and his friend/rival Gunloc. Both Chun-Li and Guile make a cameo appearance in Final Fight 2 on stages 1 and 2. Intergration story wise: Cody's story from Final Fight Revenge continues in SFA3. note: Cody goes to jail in FFR and escapes jail in SFA3. it's very straight forward. Guy's story continues from FF to SFA. Maki encountered Sakura, and Sakura mentioned that she fought another ninja like Maki before(which was Guy), and Maki asked her where Guy was. in SFA3m SF + FF = meant to be ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Okay, now that the facts are up, time for my argument:
1. If a FF character is a part of a canon SF game, that makes them a canon part of SF.
2. Saying SFA isn't a "core" part of the SF games as an excuse to exclude FF characters is like saying Sakura, Dan, and Rose have no place in SF4 because they are only in the Alpha series.
3. FF characters make canon apearances in SFA-SFA3 and SF3TS. So there should be no reason for them to continue to do so!
4. Guy is in Capcom Fighting Evolution as a Street Fighter Alpha Character, not a Final Fight Character. So why can't he be considered a SFA character in SFIV? link>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gspgYmwTkRg
this is a discussion thread on wheather or not gamers generally care if FF characters are not in SF4 and if FF characters should have a place in the rest of the series.
This is the order that the games within the Street Fighter plot's universe takes place. The majority of these dates are official statements.
Muscle Bomber/Duo (1981, probably, going by Haggar's age)
Super Muscle Bomber (1982, probably. Ditto)
Street Fighter & Final Fight 1 (1987. FF1 stated to take place during SF1.)
Final Fight 2/Street Fighter Zero 1&2 (late 1987 thru early 1989: Guy wasn't in FF2 because he was training, FF2 took place 1 year after FF1)
Street Fighter Zero 3 (1989 thru early 1990. Double Upper is the latest version)
Final Fight 3 (1991 is most likely)
Street Fighter 2 (1993. X Revival is latest version)
Street Fighter 4 A New Beginning (pending release in 2008)
Street Fighter 3 New Generation and SF3 Second Impact (1998. Second Impact replaces New Generation)
Street Fighter 3 Third Strike (1999. This is SF3's epilogue)
Final Fight Streetwise (2006 going by release date. Lots of evidence that it takes place waaaaaay after Final Fight 1, and the urban culture is likely intended to be based around this date as well.)
About Muscle Bomber's place in the timeline: Annoyingly, Haggar being 'ex-mayor' during those games was made up by Capcom of USA, if even that much. All About Capcom states that Haggar was in the middle of elections during Muscle Bomber. Heck, even Haggar's profile in the Super Nintendo Final Fight 1 instruction book for the US states that he left wrestling to become the mayor. As for Hugo's Street Fighter 3 Second Impact ending with the CWA, those are definitely just joke endings that never happened (he doesn't have any tag team partners in Third Strike nor does his Third Strike storyline indicate that his endings could have happened in any way) and not meant to be taken seriously. Haggar's appearance as a wrestler in those endings is most likely just an easter egg. If they aren't just easter eggs, that's fine too and doesn't contradict because it's wholly possible that Haggar has decided to go back to wrestling since then because his tenure as mayor ended two years after SFZ3 according to All About Capcom. Capcom hasn't stated it either way though (though I myself am pretty sure it's just easter egg appearances). Even with that, however, the Muscle Bomber games themselves definitely took place before Final Fight 1 as stated by All About Capcom.
Streetwise has an election poster in Haggar's gym that places Haggar's elections (and thus SMB) at 1982. Other sources say Haggar was elected 5 years before Final Fight One, which, if you go by FF1's retconned date of 1987, is 1982 as well.
Oh, and Haggar being "newly elected mayor of Metro City" in Final Fight was something Capcom of America added. He's just "mayor of Metro City" in the Japanese version.
About when Capcom decided to have Final Fight take place within the SF canon
Contrary to what some believe, it was NOT Street Fighter Zero that made Final Fight part of the Street Fighter universe and canon. Final Fight has officially existed within the Street Fighter canon storyline universe as late as when Street Fighter 2 was first released, and possibly earlier than that, due to the game initially billed as Street Fighter '89. Guile's and Bay Area's dogs were declared to be pals within the storyline ever since Street Fighter 2 existed. It was just that the Zero series had the first Street Fighter games with Final Fight characters directly involved, but the Final Fight series still officially existed within the Street Fighter universe before Zero was made.
Why does Final Fight 1's intro state it took place sometime during 1989? Capcom went by the release date for Final Fight's date of occurrence. They would do this with Final Fight 2 later on.
Before Zero 2 came out, the SF universe timeline went according to game release dates for games prior to SFZ. SF1 happened in 1987, FF happened in 1989, SFZ events went clear into 1990 where Z3 is today, and SF2 in 1991. Entering into SFZ, Guy is already proclaimed the 39th bushinryu master, so he's already had his fight to the death with Zeku; aka the game's not about his training to become the 39th, he already is, just like if you enter SFZ3 as him. The real time year in the real world was 1995 at this time.
Next real time year 1996, SFZ2 comes out. Now Capcom decided to have Guy still training to become the 39th, and he meets Zeku at the end of the game, Guy's ending, to then engage the fight to the death. Back to the SF universe timeline: with Zero 2 events beginning in late 1987-early 1988, now FF is backed up to 1987 because both FF and SF1 still have to be prior to SFZ2 as before with SFZ, and consequently FF2 backs up to where SFZ2 is as well, to account for Guy's absence in FF2.
Street Fighter's dates take priority over Final Fight's due to FF being the subset of the larger SF universe.
Final Fight Streetwise's election date of 1982 for Haggar places Final Fight One at the year 1987, anyways (official statements are that he became mayor 5 years before Final Fight One. Also, his official ages for Final Fight One and Super Muscle Bomber are 5 years apart, and he was in elections during the Muscle Bomber series.)
Going back to how I said that Capcom has set as equally official birthdates and ages for the Final Fight cast, they may have eventually veered towards the latter. For Haggar in AAC, his FF1 profile is listed minus his birthdate and age (same for Guy & Cody), but he's declared to be 41 years old in Super Muscle Bomber. Also even though Guy's Z3 stage story doesn't mention Metro City's peaceful due to Mad Gear's defeat, Haggar's AAC Z3 entry does; it calls him the one who crushed Mad Gear one year previous, and as Zero 3 opens, due to Shadaloo's doing Metro City begins to experience unrest yet again, the unrest may be including Cody's jailbreak. Whether Shadoloo's operatives include the Skull Cross gang or some other unnamed group or individuals is not known for sure.
Haggar has a Z3 entry in AAC; it's where we learn that his term will end two years later. It's assumed that because it doesn't mention Cody or Guy, it refers to the final Mad Gear crush during FF2 and the scattered remnants in Metro City during SFZ2, in which Cody and Guy didn't partake. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pgIII AboutCapcomClassicsCollection.
Some bios are unlockable for Final Fight characters in Capcom Classics Collection. This is relevant to Poison being a guy (finally stated in English). Here's what the translator Sirlin said about their authenticity:
"We did not touch any of the text for the character bios. It was written (or maybe gotten from old archives) by Capcom. It took a long time for Capcom to even give us text because they needed a bunch of approvals for it, probably from Capcom Japan. So it's pretty accurate, but you never know when a company is rewriting history with their story. Bottom line, it's a pretty trustworthy source, but you never know. --Sirlin."
Made by the same team as Final Fight Revenge. This time, the team had "free reign", although Capcom of Japan still had final word, thus the new material it introduced is authentic, not that it significantly matters since it takes place considerably long after any other canonized game in the saga. Capcom of America owned the Street Fighter License by this time and that shortly after FF:SW was released, the American Studio that developed it (and Maximo, and had the team that made FF:R), Capcom Studio 8, was closed down.
Guy vs Karin - Karin tells Guy of the bushin prophecy that Guy will rise against Vega. ...ironically, that prophecy turns out to be false. Real false. Guy's true SFZ3 storyline is officially what happened with him in Rose's storyline, so I'd be surprised if any of his boss battles happened. Guy's ending (which may have happened but it's really just a revelation he gets, anyways) doesn't have much to do with this prophecy, either.
Guy vs Gen - More about the bushin prophecy, really. Ditto.
Guy vs Vega - Definitely did not happen. Even Zeku's prediction that Guy would fight Vega ended up being wrong, since he officially never got that close to Bison in SFZ3 (his true SFZ3 ending was Rose's) and disappeared after that. Hmm. ...unless they meant Guy would fight Rose (who takes Vega's place for a bit or more, as shown by her ending) or something. ...dangling plotline?
Cody vs Vega - Cody attacks Vega for the hell of it >:} LOL, I personally like how Cody just wants to get into tons of battles just for the hell of it because he's addicted to fighting, but I digress. At any rate, this is generally a pointless filler battle that thus, like the majority of SFZ3 battles with Vega, did not happen. Guy never got that close to Vega, anyways, so the majority of Cody's ending up until the destruction of Vega most definitely didn't happen (though Guy wanting to reform Cody definitely did, as shown by Final Fight One dialogue).
Rose vs Guy - Guy wants to follow Rose, but she won't let him. Important to Rose's ending, which did officially happen, thus this battle/meeting definitely happened.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FINAL FIGHT TOUGH (FINAL FIGHT 3 overseas)
Canon Date: 1991?
Likely 1991, which is after Street Fighter Zero 3 so that Guy could be back but also before Haggar's tenure as mayor ended. Guy officially didn't return to Metro City until SFZ3 was done, and you can see him hint that he'll be going back to Metro City in Cody's SFZ3 ending. Haggar officially is stated to have finally stopped being mayor two years after SFZ3, which would be 1992. Also, Guy was stated in FFT to come back after 'several years' of training, so after Zero 3, whose last event took place only 2 years after Zero 2, which is where Guy was training, seems most likely. Pre-retcon, its release date was 1995, so maybe that was the original intended release date, although SFZ2 would be released only a year later to force a retcon of FF1's and FF2's dates.
If Ono sees this thread I think he'll reconsider and add FF characters or maybe he just wanted to finish the SF2 roaster 1st before making other characters, since he said in the interview he'll be concentrating on the SFII Turbo characters. The SFII characters are all out exception for Akuma and nothing new has popped out since the Rufus video leak.
My list: 1. Guy 2. Cody 3. Maki
Hoping one FF character would be in the arcades, time release? secret?
Awaiting Resident Evil 6
Will not take out of signature till translated officially
This thread might get moved to the general Street Fighter discussion area...
And for the record, they should return. FF being linked to SF can help sales for future FF games. Imagine if FF Streetwise was advertised with heavy plot links and a trailer (upon beating the game) to SF4?
Problem is that Ono doesn't want them in the game this time. It doesn't mean he will exclude them from future versions. SF4 is the series return to the current market. Think of it as an introductory game. I'd expect in later sequels that the floodgates (fan request and popular demand) will open and we'll start seeing other eras being represented.
It isn't like Ono doesn't think that FF characters are apart of SF canon, he just wants to focus on the characters from SF2. Just because they aren't in this game, doesn't translate into "gone forever".
Pardon my ignorance, but is there truly a debate going on whether FF is a part of the SF universe?
